Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-03 > 1236269993

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a2 M423+P41.2
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:19:53 -0700
References: <1059868A822141E79C56A16CAECCE57C@StevePC>

Steve, The M423 snp happened quite a ways upstream before the branch lines
to I2a2-Isles and I2a2-Dinaric separated. This was probably 10,000 years
ago or more and before any of this ancestral line were close to Ireland.
Part of this population ended up in southeast Europe and part in Ireland,
but that was thousands of years later.

M423+ mutation defines I2a2 --- both Isles and Dinaric
The Isles branch and the Dinaric branch of I2a2 are separated later by a L69
a.k.a. S163 which happens on the Dinaric line.

But since Dinaric I2a2 and Isles I2a2 have gone their separate ways so long
ago, their basic modal haplotypes have become quite different as well. With
a little practice one never confuses a Dinaric haplotype with an Isles

P41.2+ only happened to a small fraction of the Dinarics. It has nothing to
do with the Isles population. P41.2- is not a mutation but the absence of a
mutation. Almost all I2a2 is P41-

First M423+ happened
Then branch lines for Isles and Dinaric separated (2 brothers establish 2
surviving lines of descent --- a very rare event in those days)
Then much later founders for Isles and for Dinaric established the beginning
of the two populations we see today
Isles founder was probably in Germany somewhere
Dinaric founder was probably in Balkans or Danube basin
Isles migrated to British Isles and eventually Ireland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:40 PM
Subject: [yDNAhgI] I2a2 M423+P41.2

> Ken am I right in thinking, I2a2 as my tests show was early in its
> appearance initially in Ireland and the M423+ P41.2- are " later
> mutations?" occuring in Ireland, Cheers Steve tests were FTDNA 37 marker
> & deep clade test. You're doing a brilliant job Ken,
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