Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-03 > 1237509898

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Half Way There I2/I2a SnP Search
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:44:58 -0600
References: <000a01c9a8dc$00c260a0$6400a8c0@Ken1><BLU147-DAV97DE3D0119CCA4A8A95DAFF960@phx.gbl>

[[[[ ..... ]]]] are Ken's comments in response.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Half Way There I2/I2a SnP Search

> Seems like we need a couple things, we need options with the best chance
> of
> success. Ken has seemed to have already done this. Maybe Ken can verify
> my
> read on what he has come up with:

> [[[[ These three different projects in different parts of the I tree are
> not alternative options but rather parallel options that can be syndicated
> and carried out independently of each other. Doing one does not subtract
> from doing another. You did list them, however in the ranking I came up
> with concerning expected (in probability sense) number of snps to be
> discovered, all other factors being about equal. ]]]]

> Best option is:
> I2a*-Western donor and a donor from any of the I2* clades
[[[[ We must fold in willing participants who will fund their whole half of
a project. We have two people from different places in I2a2 willing to fund
their half of a comparison to an I2* person. I2a2 connects to I2* via the
same ancient MRCA 20,000 years ago. So the gross number of expected snps to
be discovered is about the same. A dna from a clade of I2a2-Isles, for
instance, produces the chance of an snp which divides the 4 clades of
I2a2-Isles into separate haplogroups, etc. ]]]]
> Second best:
> I2b1-Roots to an I2b1-Continental-1or2
> Third option mentioned:
> Some form of I1-AS1 and I1-AS
> First question is could we kill two birds with one stone by getting a
> I2a*-Western and then a I2B1-Roots and I2B1-contental 1 or 2? $2250 for
> two
> comparisons. Does this work? [[[[ The routing between the I2b1 dna and
> the I2a or I2a2 dna goes through the ancient MRCA 20,000 years ago as
> well, so some of the gross probabilities are same as the top scenario.
> But I will have to look at how much of the branch track length covers
> branch segments where snps are already present. We don't want to spend
> time and money finding more redundant snps. I'll look into this scenario.
> But it does involve forming a syndicate for $2250 instead of $1500. That
> will be a consideration. Such additional comparisons of results beyond
> paired dna comparisons will alwys be available to us in the future because
> all dna will be run through the same nucleotide sites of the Y for some
> indefinite period into the future. ]]]]
> After figuring out the best options we need volunteers that are good
> candidates. [[[ Among discovery-equivalent candidates for supplying the
> dna, surely those willing to pay for their tests will be tested unless I
> can convince redundant testees that all should not test (hasn't happened
> yet). Closing these syndicates with full coverage of costs is yet to be a
> proven thing. ]]]] Again Ken would have to verify that the people who are
> willing
> to do it are "the best" candidates. I know there have been some that have
> volunteered. I volunteered for the I2b1-cont1a. Ken can you verify who
> has
> volunteered and is appropriate for each of the above options? [[[ I'll
> sort out all the offers to contribute to this or that regional search
> project tonight and give a summary of how far along the projects are. ]]]]
> Do we need to
> solicit volunteers? [[[[ That's what I have been trying to do for 48 hours
> with my general scientific feasibility messages, but my solicitation
> skills are not the finest. When I inventory the offers of participation I
> have received we'll know how far there is still to go. I think the I2* /
> I2a2 project is close to "a go"; I think the I1-AS project has generated
> the least interest so far. ]]]]
> After we have the options in place then we can focus on raising the money.
> Is there a limit on the number of trials we can do with FTDNA or is it
> simply a matter of money? [[[[ FTDNA can change their business offerings
> at any time. But my understanding is they are ready to take orders for
> whatever projects the hobby community can put together. ]]]]
> Adam
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