Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-04 > 1240530760

From: "Adam" <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2b1* Walk the Y Search
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:52:40 -0700
References: <01a001c9c2ba$e7bc9050$6400a8c0@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <01a001c9c2ba$e7bc9050$6400a8c0@Ken1>

Good news. I was accepted today by FTDNA for the Walk the Y for the M223
cont1a individual for our I2b project. I received the kit. I have since
made a donation and will be sending the DNA in tomorrow. We are over half
way on the funding which is great as well.


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Ken Nordtvedt
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:54 PM
To: ;
Subject: [yDNAhgI] I2b1* Walk the Y Search

In trying to lay out the most promising paid-for, deliberate searches of the
Y for new snps (FTDNA's Walk the Y program) within haplogroup I the main
criterion which came to mind was finding pairs of dna to compare separated
by the longest stretchs of Y tree branch line between them NOT containing
existing snps. We want to discover new useful snps, not pay good money to
find new phylogenetically equivalent snps --- at least in these beginning
stages of this program. We're in the pioneering stage, and first waves
should try to succeed.

I have laid out a search concept between a I2b1* Continental and a I2b1*
Roots dna person. Both these clades are presently I2b1* with M223 the most
well known final snp defining this haplogroup. But these two clades show
quite different modal (founder) haplotypes, and a common ancestor between
them 10,000 years ago is not an unreasonable estimate. A snp discovered
between them would be useful for dividing them into separate haplogroups. I
estimate the chances of there being a discovered snp as:

2 / 100million times 100,000 times 20,000 / 30 = 1.33
The "expected" number of discovered snps is greater than 1 if 2 / 100
million is a good number for the average nucleotide site.

But we have a certain chance the discovered snp(s) would be private-like and
tag only modest portions of Continental or Roots, rather than divide them
from each other --- in other words they would be within either rather than
between Continental and Roots.

I have shown the pertinent M223 portion of the y tree in a file
Scenario-M223.ppt at http://knordtvedt.net.bresnan.net

The color coded tree shows the branch route being tested for a new snp and
what the different possibilities of outcome are. Any discovered snp(s)
would also have implications for the other subhaplogroups of M223 such as
P78 and M284.

Jane Gilbert, who recently became the new administrator for the M223 FTDNA
project, will administer the contributions we need to collect to carry out
this search. If you send a contribution to FTDNA identify it as for the
I2b1* walk the y project. Please c.c. Jane so she can follow how things are
going. The I2b1 project website link is below.


Of course fund raising will be made easier if anyone of I2b1*
Continental-1&2 or Roots wishes to pay for their entire search.

I'm sure I did not cover everything, so questions and comments are


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