Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-07 > 1247920008

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] More Walk the Y New SNPs for I2a tree
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 06:26:48 -0600

A dna donor from the I2a2a-Disles clade received his Walk the Y results. Two things were achieved:

1. He found a new snp, named L178, on the Dinaric/Disles branch line after it splits from the I2a2 Isles branch line.

See warpedfounderstree file at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

2. He was found ancestral for L161, the new snp found by a Walk the Y donor from I2a2 Isles. This importantly means L161 occured on the Isles branch line after this same split mentioned in 1. This latter finding is important for the salesmanship of L161; it really stands a chance of splitting the four main clades of I2a2-Isles. So folks in I2a2-Isles in clades A,B,C,D should test for L161 at FTDNA's advanced tests catalog. The donor whose dna found L161 is from the D clade, and we hope it is not extremely downstream and being a private-like snp. Only testing by assorted Isles I2a2 people can now sort this out. The synergy between The Disles results and the earlier Isles finding put L161 where it can split Isles.

When L178 becomes available for purchase at FTDNA, some I2a2a Dinarics should test for it. Then we find out if L178 splits Disles from Dinaric clades . I2a2a Disles is found mainly in the British Isles, but interestingly it is closest to I2a2a Dinaric which is found mainly in Eastern Europe with its hotspot in the western Balkans. Those two branch lines must have had an interesting journey in Europe since the LGM.

We have now found 5 new snps within the I2a tree --- three on the I2a1 branch line, one on the I2a2-Isles branch line, and now one on the I2a2a-Disles branch line. I estimate a total of about 50,000 years of parallel and independent branch line has been covered in these Walk the Y searches. So we are getting a new snp found per approximate 10,000 years of branch line, or 330 generations. This number seems about what the HUGO versus I1 full Y sequence data results seem to show.

We still wait on a Walk the Y result from an I2* donor. I2* is close to my heart, being a clade of unusual geography and age which may contain the best information about the earliest era of haplogroup I. Finding 2 new snps from him on the I2(xI2a) part of the tree would not be unrealistic given the number we have found so far.

Then we have a couple donors from the two main divisions of I2b1* --- Continental and Roots. They stand good chances of finding 2 snps separating them, and also conveying information about I2b1a and I2b1c as bonuses.

Findly, a brave donor from I2a* Western waits results. He stands a good chance of a couple new snps to take the * away from this unique clade.

So far we'd have to say the Walk the Y projects in I2 have been a success in their early phases. Followup individual tests of the new snps by folks known to be in the appropriate sub-haplogroups and clades are required, however, to extract all the information the new snps contain about the phylogenetic tree of haplogroup I2 and new branchings.

A good number of I1 people have signed up for the Walk. It's a discussion for another day. What happens in I2 and what happens in I1 are quite disjoint. But the snp discovered per 10,000 years of independent branch line should give a clue to what to expect.


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