Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-L Archives

Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-08 > 1249402896


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] I2a's L178 is Relocated Upstream
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:21:36 -0600


L178 is a new walk the y snp found derived in an I2a2 Disles sample. It had not been reported derived in the I2a2 Isles person who did the walk the y, so I located it downstream of the Dinaric/Disles - Isles node in the y tree.

Word is today from Dr Krahn that technical quality issues with the original scan through the I2a2 Isles dna led to no derived call at the L178 site, but on reexamination of this site after finding this new snp in the Disles, it shows Isles is also derived for L178.

So L178 has to move upstream of the node where Isles and Dinaric/Disles branch lines part ways. The new L161 still separates Isles from Dinaric/Disles, being derived for the former and ancestral for the latter.

L178 is not yet available for customer ordering, but the logical folks to test for it would be the I2a*-F(french) clade members. I2a*-F is M423- but using STR genetic distance is closest in the tree to Isles and Dinaric/Disles --- certainly much closer than to either M26+ or I2a*-Western. It seems likely the I2a*-F clade will separate L178 from M423, making I2a*-F the unique haplogroup with L178 derived but M423 ancestral. But conceivably I2a*-F could be L178- making this new snp phylogenetically equivalent to M423 for now.

I have altered my warpedfounderstree file at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net accordingly

There is a person from I2a*-Western in the walk the y program. He could theoretically turn out L178+, but that probability seems extremely slim to me because the genetic distance of I2a*-Western is so great from everybody else it forces the Western branch line to leave the rest of the tree in extremely ancient times, maybe even before M26 line does.

If you are in I2a*-F you should ask for the L178 test.

I2a*-F has some very unique STR values for identifying membership:

DYS388 = 9
DYS454 = 12
DYS437 = 16
DYS385 = 11-14


This thread: