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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] Fw: Kittler Tests are Last Game in Town
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:49:42 -0600


Walk the Y has been a monumental flop in haplogroup I. For many thousands of dollars of customer expenditures only a single useful new SNP, L160, has been found to divide clade populations of I2a1 so far. There are some haplogroup I orders for WTY still outstanding, and maybe they will yet change the cost/reward ratio for the better? Only time will tell.

But haplogroup I accidently has many clades for which Kittler tests for the locating of the two DYS385 repeats can help us divide clades into divisions. If a clade has a large population of haplotypes with DYS385a,b = X-X (identical repeats), then the haplotypes which have mutated from X-X to unequal repeat pairs can have a modestly priced Kittler test tell which of their repeats sits at which location in the y chromosome. So traditional DYS385 = 13,14 as reported by the labs could be a Kittler measured 13-14 or 14-13 --- which are different allele states. And the same for other DYS385 repeat pairs which are unequal.

Another day I will enumerate all the clades in haplogroup I for which a Kittler test together with other peoples' Kittler tests could help us understand the clades better. But saying they are everywhere in haplogroup I is not an exaggeration.

It is about the only thing we can do right now to increase our understanding of haplogroup I --- do lots of Kittler tests. FTDNA offer them.

More haplotypes can be gathered, and more of existing haplotypes can be extended to all available STRs. But this brings diminished returns once clades are discovered. As our research databases get larger, each additional haplotype added to it brings a smaller addition to the knowledge base.

But only a tiny fraction of the database haplotypes which should do the Kittler test have done so. This is a big potential for separating haplotypes by two or more steps of mutational difference by just fully testing the familar STR DYS385 which we all have.

So if your DYS385 = 12-12 or 13-13 or 14-14 or 15-15 or 16-16 DO NOT order a Kittler test

But if your DYS385 = 12-13 or 11-12 or.... 14-15 or ...... 16-17, etc., and many other haplotypes of your clade are of the equal repeats form, please consider ordering a Kittler test

Ken




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