Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2010-03 > 1270062919

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] [DNA] Timeline of the Interesting I2a2b-Isles L161+
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:22:02 -0600

>>I find the L161+ Isles I2a2b haplogroup one of the more interesting tales
>>in haplogroup I. Back in 2004 all of P37+ (xM26) was lumped together as
>>this "Balkan" haplogroup which sort of balanced out the I1of
>>western/northern Europe. But first it was found there was a strong and
>>extremely distinct clade of "Western" P37+ (xM26) centered in northwest
>>Europe, and somewhat later there was found a complicated British Isles
>>clade of P37+ (xM26) with hardly any continental representation. All this
>>was done prior to discovery of new SNPs to tag these divisions which we
>>now have. Today Dinaric, Western, and Isles major divisions each have SNP
>> I2a2b-Isles L161+ could be one of the earlier folks to repopulate the
>> British Isles after the LGM. I'll try to lay out the timeline as best
>> estimated with variance and GD measures of haplotype populations, and add
>> some supplementary place-of-origin information. I see 10 or more clades
>> (clusters) of haplotypes in I2a2b-Isles, and have little doubt that
>> someday SNPs will be found to tag the individual clades. But I'll work
>> with the division of I2a2b-Isles into its four main clades --- A,B,C,D.
>> Clade A is a late spin-off from clade B; Clade D is a late spin-off from
>> clade C, as indicated by interclade variances.
>> My haplotype database counts with number from continent indicated (7 of
>> 55 indicates 7 haplotypes continental of total 55) These haplotypes range
>> all over the lot in number of STRs.
>> Clade A --- 0 of 48
>> Clade B --- 17 of 51
>> Clade C --- 7 of 55
>> Clade D --- 6 of 68
>> Note: some of the continental haplotypes have suspiciously British
>> looking surnames.
>> Timeline of key events from Interclade and Intraclade Variances
>> 13,500 b.p. The two branch lines eventually leading to I2a2a-Dinaric and
>> I2a2b-Isles separate.
>> 6,000 b.p. Two branch lines eventually leading to I2a2b-Isles-B(&A) and
>> to I2a2b-Isles-C(&D) separate
>> 5,600 b.p. TMRCA for 17 Continental members of Clade B
>> 4.800 b.p. TMRCA for 34 Isles members of Clade B (A/B node about the
>> same time)
>> 3,900 b.p. TMRCA of Clade C (C/D node about the same time)
>> 2,500 b.p. TMRCA of Clade D
>> 1,500 b.p. TMRCA of clade A
>> Continental members I2a2b-Isles (with just one exception from Basque
>> region) are spread in a swath across north German plain from Poland to
>> low countries and France)
>> My present hunch from all this is that I2a2b-Isles-B L161+ arrived in the
>> British Isles prior to the arrival of the so-called Celtic populations.
>> See warpedfounderstree at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net to see the
>> I2a2b tree within the larger context of the whole haplogroup I timeline
>> and phylogeny.
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