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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] World of P78+ I2b1c
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 10:54:43 -0600


I have 90 haplotypes which are confirmed or probably P78+ I2b1c. They form an interesting population, geographically speaking, and are an unusually old clade. Not counting the usual British Isles surnames we have the following origin counts:

Italy 6
Germany 9
Belgium 1
Hungary 3
Turkey/Armenia 1
Greece 1
Czech 4
Russia 1
Poland 1
France 4
and 18 Jews from Ukraine and other neighboring eastern Europe locations with their own unique and very young cluster within I2b1c.

I2b1c is basically absent from Scandinavia

I'll be darned if I will recommend buying a "deep clade package" at FTDNA just to get P78. I deplore their packaging. But if you are willing to go to Ethnoancestry you can purchase P78 as individual snp.
Ethnoancestry has always been very supportive of our deep-time hobby by offering snps ala-carte. So if you can handle doing business with another lab, I think they should be supported for their ala-carte approach.

I2b1c is difficult to separate from a cluster within I2b1* without either a P78 test or having the 38-67 panel of STRs. I recommend the latter if you think you may be of this clade.

Look for 15 at 395b, 11 or 12 at 406, 13 at 534, 13 at 487. Those are indicators of P78+ rather than basic M223+ I2b1* Continental-2

Also your DYS464a will probably be a high repeat value, such as 14 (But that alone is also true of this confusing I2b1* cluster).

Ken


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