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Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2011-01 > 1295202616


From: Aaron Casillas <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1 in Spain
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:30:16 -0800 (PST)
References: <617835.18548.qm@web84103.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D322462.2030101@genealogie-fritsche.de><42D90952DF904FDA8415915E530A7F9F@LENOVO3E8E57C1><4D32FFA5.7080902@genealogie-fritsche.de>
In-Reply-To: <4D32FFA5.7080902@genealogie-fritsche.de>


To clarify I was alluding to 1) a more recent event to Spain, not merceneries,
or crusaders, or normans, but streams of colonists.  Many parts of Spain were
depopulated by design and then repopulated with people from Germany and France,
especially the war border areas.  This has been well documented by many
sources.   As well as being administrators to the crown which was in the
Nethelands, low and behold the dna points in that direction for some families
(like my r1b frisian). The same goes to Mexico, invasions from the French such
as in my families home town resulted in returns of haplo I1, 8k people town, 16
families tested, 1 out 8 was haplo I1, the rest were mostly R1b A/S,  both I1
families claim potential French backgrounds (coincidence?), where is that
subgroup (norman? I'd like some scientific proof, that's why I'm here)

Questions and food for thought:
 
If the haplo I1 are from groups like the Suevi, Alani, Visigoth, Vandal, Lombard
and Norman shouldn't we see a mutation somewhere?  Shouldn't the subgroups codes
(as1, ud etc) that are discussed here often then include these groups as well? 
They seem to be very large groups that once encompassed large parts of
countries.

Shouldn't the familytreedna ancestral origins page steer towards Spain even at
12 markers? Since these groups broke away long ago? Instead they show Sweden,
Denmark and Netherlands.  There should be a "aha look the Goths or aha we found
the Vandals!"  I see .2% Spain, 3.1% Netherlands, 2.9% Sweden, 2.2% Slovenia,
2.1% Norway...are these numbers bogus?


Are we using the haplo I1 data from Susan Adams et " Supplemental Data Paternal
Lineages of Christians, Jews and Muslims in the Iberian Penisula?"  I can send
the link to whoever is interested.

For example, wouldn't we see a definite subclade connection between the
ancestral home of the Goths (Sweden?) and NE spain? I'm guessing M26? Is there
one? Do we see the founder effect anywhere? Say are the m26 in Sweden match up
with the now supposed overwhelming founder effected Visigoth m26 in NE Spain? 
Do we see a trail of Goth dna from the Baltic to hard dys matches to Spain?

We also know that their were colonies of Nordic people in Portugual such as in
the town of Povoa de Varzim, can you differentiate those haplo I1 from
Visigoth/Suevi/et all I1s? If no then we can't differentiate any the proposed
invader groups can we?

In the case that started all of this, (Carballada ) the tree flow chart pointed
to Finland, there seemed to be an immediate conditioning that he must be a
Visigoth and or Suevi descent without any hard scientific data to support it,
other than what I guess is the person's last name.  I think this is steering
incorrectly away from Scientific facts. (In my case why is there a high marker
match with the Hendrix profile on ysearch, where is his family from?)

Instead we should be asking ourselves, why is it Finnish? Are there more of with
these returns to make a substantial Scientific claim? If all of the sudden we
found Finnish returns outside of Finland over and over again,say in Spain or
Portugual, perhaps that would be a point of ephiphany and discoverment. "Look
the Visigoths!" or a better question, when did that Finnish person arrive at X
geographically?


-AC 
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