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From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] NEW ancient haplogroup within M223+
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 12:47:37 -0600
References: <1848FD9B29314CFFA47B8061AA7ADA38@kenPC><000801cc699c$829ddc20$87d99460$@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <000801cc699c$829ddc20$87d99460$@comcast.net>


I don't know about those letters, but M284+, P78+, P95+, and now L147+L623+
are the four parallel subhaplogroups of M223+. And of course there is the
largest basic M223+ with no further snps.

I think P78+ and the new L147+L623+ have some closeness of origin in the
tree, but this is a hunch at the moment.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Games
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:17 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] NEW ancient haplogroup within M223+

Ken I know you have better things to do than answer my request but if you
have the time what distinguishes I2a2a3 from I2a2a4 ?
Ralph

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Nordtvedt
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 7:39 AM
To: ;
Subject: [yDNAhgI] NEW ancient haplogroup within M223+

The new haplogroup within M223+ has snp tags L147+ and L623+ It is parallel
to the longtime M284+ and P78+ and tiny P95+ haplogroups.

So for now I call it I2a2a4. It is very old; with branch roots as old as
P78+

For some time, prior to finding these two snps, I had called the clade which
now is part of I2a2a4 the Continental-2c part of basic M223+

This new haplogroup shows a much more British Isles geographical trend. I’d
say it is pre-Roman in the isles?
There is some French and German membership, however.

Here is how you identify I2a2a4 L147+ L623+
otherwise, more or less standard M223+ Continental values

DYS19 = 14
DYS464b = 11
YCA = 21/21 or 20/21
DYS537 = 12
DYS446 = 10
DYS487 = 13
B7 = 10
DYS452 = 29

And it has even more unique marker values from basic M223+ Continental, all
the way into the 68-111 panels. This reflects the ancient age for its
branch line node
But of course all haplotypes in the clade will not match on all markers;
that’s a property of particularly old clades.

If you suspect membership in this new haplogroup, I recommend the snps L147
and L623 for testing from FTDNA.

Ken

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