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From: "K. Fitzgerald" <>
Subject: Re: [YKS] My Father always said
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:59:49 -0800
References: <001101c1aa8d$4dca51a0$988401d5@mumscomputer>


Hi there,
In the US, this children's song is commonly sang as:
Ring around the rosie,
A pocket full of posies;
Ashes, ashes,
We all fall down!
============
According to Philip Hiscock, the Archivist at the Memorial University of
Newfoundland Folklore and Language:

"........The fact is that unlike many other nursery rhymes, ones which we
know are very old, there was no known version of "Ring-a-ring-a-rosie" (the
usual name for it) before the late nineteenth century! It is a big leap of
faith to suggest that it was circulating for five hundred years before
anyone got around to writing it down. But, you might ask, why would anyone
write it down anyway? The answer is that English antiquarians and
folklorists have been bringing together, publishing and discussing
traditional rhymes, songs, and stories for over three hundred years. It does
seem odd that they might have missed this one.

I will remain skeptical of plague interpretations for a while yet. The more
likely explanation is to be found in the religious ban on dancing among many
Protestants in the nineteenth century, in Britain as well as here in North
America. Adolescents found a way around the dancing ban with what was called
in the United States the "play-party." Play-parties consisted of ring games
which differed from square dances only in their name and their lack of
musical accompaniment. They were hugely popular, and younger children got
into the act, too. Some modern nursery games, particularly those which
involve rings of children, derive from these play-party games. "Little Sally
Saucer" (or "Sally Waters") is one of them, and "Ring Around the Rosie"
seems to be another. The rings referred to in the rhymes are literally the
rings formed by the playing children. "Ashes, ashes" probably comes from
something like "Husha, husha" (another common variant) which refers to
stopping the ring and falling silent. And the falling down refers to the
jumble of bodies in that ring when they let go of each other and throw
themselves into the circle. We mustn't look too closely for meaning -- we
all know that children are not predisposed against making up and repeating
nonsense.

Folklore rarely appears from nowhere, though. It usually has elements
borrowed from other forms. Perhaps there was an earlier, partially revived
rhyme which had some of the same elements. But the rhyme as we know it
certainly does not date from the plague years....."
=================
Now aren't you sorry this whole business was ever brought up!?! {;o)
Bye for now,
Kathleen (Whiteing) Fitzgerald
Ohio


----- Original Message -----
From: kevin.revill <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: [YKS] My Father always said


> Hi Mary,
> Ring a ring a roses is a popular rhyme that children join hands and sing.
> The words where ring a ring a roses, a pocketful of posies, a tissue a
tissue,
> we all fall down.
> The Nursery rhyme derives from the black plague of the fourteenth century.
> I think the ring around the roses refers to the rash and the a tissue to
the symptoms of the plague.
<snip>


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