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Archiver > YORKSGEN > 2002-05 > 1020257738


From: "jeanniepayton" <>
Subject: Re: [YKS] Ancestry.com & unauthorised card debits!
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:55:38 -0400
References: <003f01c1f08a$22dc4aa0$f4a254d2@spence> <00c901c1f0f4$713d1700$4876fea9@w0j2n7>


Dear Listers:

Since the below converrsation is what happens in the UK let me tell you what
happens in the States. Two years ago I purchased printer ink through an
offer on the TV. When I made this purchase I used my Visa Debit Card. Well
the perrson who I oredered from asked if I wanted to become a member of this
club. I stated no I do not. Well this person went ahead
charged me not only the cost of the ink but she also charged me a hundred
dollars for membership.

We received notice from our bank that we were overdrawn and of course I
immediatley went to the bank and we went through the transactions and we
found the offending company. While we sat in the bank we contacted this
company. They told me that it would take 90 days to submit a credit back to
my account. I told them right then and there that they had 10 minutes to
put a credit back onto my card as that is how long it took them to charge my
account fraudently. The person still hemmed and hawed and I stood my
ground. I told them that I would contact the State of New Jersey Fraud
Department and I would swear out a warrant for the arrest of the person who
did it. I told them I would be waiting here at my bank for the transaction
to be completed and if it wasn't one minute after that time I would be on
the phone filing a report. My bank had already removed the charge and all
of the bank charges that occurred and we waited. Yep 9 minutes later the
credit came through.

This is what my bank told me they could do. They would have removed the
charges including the overdraft fees and then do a charge back to them if
they didn't correct their mistake. Since I was willing to charge them with
fraud the bank had already started the ball rolling. They had notified the
Credit Card company of the fraud and they lost their ability to accept
charge cards and debit cards through Visa. A mighty expensive lesson was
learned by the offending company. I make sure now that nothing is charged
to my account without my express permission.

As per Ancestry.com there are rules to be followed and if the person who
doens't follow them it is their own fault. Ancestry.com has made their
rules very obvious. If you do not want their services you need to notify
them by phone to cancel the service before the subscription is up. They
usually call you before it is up and they also notify you by email that it
is running out. If you don't notify by phone you will be charged the next
month on your Visa or whatever card you use. How do I know this. Well I am
getting ready to leave on a vacation and I knew that my subscriptions were
going to run out before I got back in six weeks. One phone call and it was
all taken care of. They extended me an additional six weeks free of charge
and they also noted that I would be renewing when I got back from my trip.
So you see all it takes it that the perrson who has signed up needs to read
all of the fine print also and do what they are supposed to do. I keep all
of my expiration dates posted right on my computer monitor so that I know
when each subscription is going to run out.
Jean Payton

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Woolsey" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:38 AM
Subject: [YKS] Ancestry.com & unauthorised card debits!


In a word - No!
Banks are powerless to act and can not recredit or stop a transaction!

In the first instance, Write a formal letter of complaint to the company
concerned, requesting the transaction to be cancelled and, the moneys taken
to be refunded to your Credit / Debit card account. Use Recorded delivery
too, so the miscreants can't say ''they never got it''!

Secondly, forward a copy of that letter to your card provider Or, the
central clearing house for credit / debit card transactions together with a
formal letter of complaint against the retailer concerned (copies to the
offending party also) . Again, use recorded delivery! Keep proof!

The card provider / clearing house will then contact the retailer concerned
and, If all is as you claim, then the money will be refunded. This can take
a while!
Your bankers can provide the necessary addresses & phone numbers for
contact.

Banks Can Not, And Neither can You, cancel a Credit / Debit card
transaction, neither can your Card Provider. This Has to be done by the
Retailer you dealt with and made the transaction with.
They also have to make the refund.
I believe the refunds are eventually made through the card provider to your
bank / card account, once the complaint has been dealt with successfully.

This is the situation in the UK at least, how it is dealt with in other
countries I don't know, but should be a similar procedure.

I recently had a similar battle with BT Internet after subscribing to their
24 / 7 service by bank debit card (Visa).
In short, the service was abysmal, and after a month of trashed Emails and
continual disconnections, cancelled the contract (in writing and, also using
their contact facility on the web site).
That was in June 2001. They never made contact with me at any point, and
were still taking money from my bank account up to December 2001, even
though I'd lodged a formal complaint with Card Services months previously.

Also be Very aware that Debit Card transactions (which debit your bank
account) are Not Credit cards, they hit your bank account 'real time', and
you do Not have the same protection with purchases, that Credit cards offer
in terms of losses and warranties.
They offer the retailer the same guarantees as Credit cards, as they are
usually affiliated with Visa, Mastercard, Switch etc. The transactions can
Not be countermanded!

So, if the retailer is taking money 'unauthorised', it's nibbling away at
your bank balance, Not a credit limit.
Be Very Wary Indeed of using Debit cards 'On-Line', if things go 'belly up'
it's your bank account that gets hit, which can make life Very difficult
indeed if things get bad enough.

For the UK Anyone having a Credit / Debit card dispute should contact:

Card Services,
7th Floor,
Essex House,Southchurch Ave,
Southend on Sea,
Essex,
SS1 2LB
Tel (From UK) (0845) 3006699

Retailers do Not Like a Lot of adverse criticism from purchasers going to
Card providers. If it gets bad enough, they can have their 'merchant' status
removed!
You could also try complaining to your local Offices of Fair Trading!
(Trading Standards) or whichever Ombudsman's office is available to you.

Hope this helps someone!

Kind Regards

John Woolsey (Sheffield UK).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Spence" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [YKS] need address for Ancestry.com


> Could you complain to your bank. Isn't this the first place you go when
> your credit card is used without your permission.
>
> Jean in S. Australia.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ruth Street" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 12:33 AM
> Subject: [YKS] need address for Ancestry.com
>
>
> > If someone has the email address for complaints about Ancestry.com
> > would they please send it to me off list.
> > They've used my credit card without my okay.
> > I subscribed once before a few years back.
> >
> > Ruth Street in Southern Ontario
> > Researching
> > Waggitt, Waggett - all
> > http://go.to/waggittgenealogy



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