YOUNGER-L ArchivesArchiver > YOUNGER > 2007-11 > 1195753228-01
Subject: Re: [YOUNGER] DNA Results
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:40:28 +0000
Hello everyone, and Happy Thanksgiving,
So far, we only have three people with confirmed DNA (meaning confirmed genealogy) back to Alexander, the immigrant, and they are all 3 through Thomas of course because we don't know of any other male children of Alexander through his two other known sons, John who died before his father and James who went to the Carolinas. If we could find male descendants from these people, we might be able to differentiate between lines, or sons, of Alexander. In order to differentiate between various lines of a particular ancestor, you must have multiple individuals who test and connect to that line with their genealogy. Hopefully, the line will develop a mutation that separates it from the other lines. We call that a line marker mutation. So far, we don't have enough info to determine that. Our other two individuals whose DNA matches the Younger line don't have their genealogy back to Thomas, but it clearly goes to one of the same Younger family, if not Thomas.
I have never been to Essex Co., Va. but I would love to visit there. Our Youngers of course lived near the border on the Dragon branch, and my Estes family also lived there just across the border in King and Queen County. I believe these two families knew each other before they both migrated to Halifax County. Here's why.
There was another Younger man named William who lived beside Moses Estes in what is now South Boston today. He lived there and purchased his land in 1764 before Moses Estes (Jr.) bought his land there in 1772. George Estes was the eldest son of Moses. In the later 1770s when Marcus Younger migrated from Essex Co. to Halifax Co., he did not purchase land for a couple of years. During that time, it appears that George Estes met his daughter Mary Younger. The land that Marcus and Thomas Younger purchased that was adjacent or very close to each other was not located in this area. In fact, it was northwest of the current town of Halifax, probably 15 miles away. So, we know that the Estes and Younger families came from an area of Essex Co. where they were near neighbors. When Marcus came to Halifax, he probably stayed with or visited William Younger who lived beside Moses Estes Jr. Marcus' daughter Mary and Moses' George son wed.
I have had a suspicion for along time that of course I'll never be able to prove. We don't know who the wife of William Younger was. We know her first name, Patience, but that is all. We also don't know the name of Moses Estes Sr.'s wife, other than Elizabeth. I have always wondered if Moses Sr.'s wife was a Younger and/or if William Younger's wife Patience was a daughter of Moses Estes Sr. We know of three male children for Moses Sr., but no daughters. He died without a will and had disposed of his property before his death, so that avenue of detection is not available for us.
I have visited Halifax many times now, so much so that it feels kind of like a second home. If you do go to Halifax, let me know in advance and I'll give you directions to the old land and such. I extracted all of the Halifax data available from the courthouse, and the same data is in the green Younger book as well, except for the chancery suits that were not available when the lady extracted that data for the book. I posted that info on the list when I found it.
If you were able to find information from Essex County, I would be very grateful if you would share. Were you able to find the original land by any chance? I love to go and find my ancestor's land. Sometimes that is a challenge in Virginia especially when the records have burned. I have now located the Younger Cemetery in Halifax County and will be returning in the spring to go with a cousin and visit it. I can hardly wait to visit old Marcus. There are no gravestones but this cemetery was on his land so I have a hard time believing he's not buried there.
I am still haunted by one question. Well, more than one, but I'll focus on one for now. Who was William Younger, whose wife was named Patience? How was he connected? He clearly was connected as Marcus's son John was his executor when he died in 1803. I show him as born before 1740, and likely somewhat before that as he was purchasing land in 1764 in Halifax. Young men did not purchase land, so he was likely over 30 at that time. One of his daughters was born in 1761, so he was likly born about 1730 himself, or possibly even before. I show Marcus as born before 1740. I have always wondered if these men were brothers, but have no evidence as such.
However, William had to have a father, and so did Marcus. Did Alexander have a brother that immigrated that we don't know about? Did Alexander's son John have these two sons before his death aout 1725?
Who are the candidates for William and Marcus's father, and why?
I'd surely like to solve this quandry. Maybe the next DNA results will help, as to date the one person who descends from Marcus has DNA that does not match the Younger line (any of them) but does match a Seay line which is another Halifax name and is a neighbor to a Younger in about 1860. The DNA test now pending is through the same son of Marcus, as he only had one, but is through a different grandson. Hopefully, the DNA will match someone, either the previous tester or the Younger line. Just my luck, it will match no one at all that we have tested:)
There is also the possibility that William and Marcus Younger were illegitimate births through one of Alexander Younger's daughters. I don't care one way or another, I just want to know. Does anyone have any thoughts on William and Marcus and their parentage or care to speculate?
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bob & Beverly Younger" <>
> Bobbi and Brownie
> Thank you for the info. Does any of this data apply to Alexander, our
> original immigrant?
> Also, does it help distinguish between the two Thomas's?
> The data I have, origin from "Armistead Younger (1811-1883) Descendants in
> Stone County, Arkansas compiled by the Stone County Historical Society"
> shows Alexander Younger, Thomas Younger, Thomas Younger, Williamson Younger,
> William Younger, Armistead Younger. The source used for Alexander, Thomas
> and Thomas is (1) Robert lee Gillan of Thorntown, IN originally from Dr.
> Harold Younger of Dallas, TX and (2) Richard Charles Younger of Salem,
> During a trip to Essex County, VA and Halifax County, VA, I did not find
> clear cut info on the two Thomas's. We, my wife and I, spent most of our
> time in Essex County, its such a beautiful area and its amazing very few
> people live there today. Anyway our time in Halifax had to be shortened, and
> yet Halifax is a tremendous source of data. We plan a return to Halifax but
> it keeps getting deferred for other things.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roberta J. Estes"
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:50 PM
> Subject: [YOUNGER] DNA Results
> >I had surgery on Monday, so this will be very very short.
> > We have new DNA results in. Two recent tests confirm the lineage of the
> > Halifax County Thomas Younger line. One is Wilma's brother and then we
> > had
> > a new one today. The original individual who tested and thought they were
> > from this line apparently aren't, as they match no other Youngers. They
> > do
> > match another last name however and those individuals were involved with
> > the
> > Younger family, so an adoption may have occurred.
> > Anyway, we now have 3 kits confirmed from the Thomas line in Halifax,
> > which
> > matches the Joseph Younger of Wilkes Co NC and the Joseph of NC who died
> > in
> > Maury Co., Tn. as well. That's 5 kits total with 3 confirmed genealogies.
> > I think that's enough to determine the lineage of Thomas.
> > Of course, the participant from my Marcus line still doesn't match any
> > Youngers either. I have a second individual whose tests are pending and
> > when we get those results back, maybe that will shed some light on the
> > situation for me as well.
> > After I feel better, I'll write up something much more succinct than this
> > for the list and for the website.
> > Bobbi Estes
> > -------------------------------
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