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Archiver > apg > 2009-08 > 1250001255-01


From: Michael Hait <>
Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:34:15 -0400
References: <817913.86024.qm@web31604.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A80DDB1.6090206@gmail.com><0F55F7FA393943FB905258663B201A74@acer511eba12df><576338.13808.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <558540.64192.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <558540.64192.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Jeanette -



Thank you for posting the link. I had not seen this one, but another Tweeter who tweeted the same conference.



I will have to concede one point: after reading through all of this blogger's tweets on the different sessions of the conference, there is one speaker that I have decided I will not choose to hear in the future. But to me, this is the same as a movie review. Some movies I will decide to see based on the review, and others I will decide not to see. If I read a tweeted "review" of a speaker who is lecturing on a topic of which it appears he/she does not have much knowledge, I will attend a different session or otherwise skip the lecture altogether.



In my opinion, however, I am glad as a consumer that I was not, and will not in the future, be forced to pay money to hear a lecturer who does not appear to be knowledgable. This is a service to the consumer. On the other hand, some of the other lecturers he tweeted did appear quite interesting, and I will now make more of an effort to hear them on the next occasion that I am able.



Michael Hait
http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com
Author, The Family History Research Toolkit
Instructor, "African-American Genealogy", GenClass
Administrator, Prince George's Co., Maryland, Genealogy Trails
Master Editor, Civil War Book, Albany Hilltowns Group
Follow me on Twitter: @michaelhait




> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:23:52 -0700
> From:
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
>
>
>
> APG list members,
>
> It looks like the email is acting up again. My original email has disappeared and the correction that makes no sense has appeared. Here is the complete email with correction below:
>
> APG List members,
>
> I think it would be good to actually look at a tweet that has been rewritten to make more sense. I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have NEVER done, used, or seen. This link will take you to a genealogy tweet from the recent BYU Conference held the very end of July. http://ancestryinsider.blogspot.com/2009/08/family-history-and-dna-testing.html Remember, this isn't the original and that the order of topics had to be changed to make more sense.
>
> Jeanette
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeanette Daniels <>
> To: LBoswell <>;
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
>
>
>
> APG List members,
>
> I need to correct a sentence in my last email. "I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have done, used, or seen." should say, "I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have NEVER done, used, or seen."
>
> Jeanette
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: LBoswell <>
> To: ; Ray Beere Johnson II <>
> Cc: APG Posting <>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
>
> Excellent summary of the main concerns, couldn't agree more. The only thing
> I would suggest is that if uses aren't found for twitter then it's more
> likely because the vast majority of those in the genealogy field simply
> aren't experienced enough with the medium to use it creatively. As more
> formats come online, it will be come more the norm even for those of us who
> prefer the old formats.
>
> Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jackie King" <>
> To: "Ray Beere Johnson II" <>
> Cc: "APG Posting" <>
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
>
>
> > There are two points here - one is the folks who are complaining about
> > the twitterers not paying attention to their lectures and not making eye
> > contact. Most accomplished twitters on a mobile device aren't even
> > looking at a keyboard. Ask any kid to text (which is done just like
> > twittering when done from a phone) and most of them can do it with the
> > phone under their school desks. So actually the note taker is probably
> > paying less attention and making less eye contact than many who twitter.
> >
> > The other point is that if someone is bound and determined to publish
> > your lecture - they are going to do it. They can get the notes in any
> > fashion they want. In this case I really believe it is more a case of
> > the author showboating, His blogs are much better than his twitter logs
> > are. Twitter and blogging are going to write some new case law but I
> > wonder if this whole discussion might not lead to some other thoughts.
> > Is there anything in any of the conference rules preventing this - and
> > if there is - does that prevent other legitimate uses of technology?
> >
> > Have copyright and digital law kept pace? (My personal guess is it has
> > not, but that is up to the courts.)
> >
> > Is it good or is it bad for those whose lectures are tweeted? Adrian and
> > I talked about this off list. Personally in the example he used, I would
> > want to really see the full lecture. I would want to know exactly what
> > kinds of browser troubles she is having with what online databases. How
> > she drills down for information because what was tweeted sure doesn't
> > get me anywhere. So it can work both ways.
> >
> > The ethics are a whole different can of worms. You can demand ethical
> > standards from those who are APG members or members of an organized
> > group. And while they should have some sense of ethics, how do you
> > demand it from independent genealogists?
> >
> > Personally, after using Twitter, my guess is it will be a fast passing
> > fancy for genealogy outside of asking for directions to a cemetery or
> > setting up a genealogy meeting. However, it does make one wonder about
> > the next use of technology in genealogy and how the organized genealogy
> > groups are going to keep up with it. Will they be proactive or reactive?
> > Unfortunately, my guess is it will be reactive and that means the horses
> > have already left the gate.
> >
> > Jackie King
> >
> >
> >
> > Ray Beere Johnson II wrote:
> >> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Jackie King <> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I really see no difference between a person clicking away with their
> >>> fingers or someone scribbling furiously other than one is electronic
> >>> and one isn't. A person who is good at shorthand can probably take
> >>> better notes than any twitterer and probably will have a more accurate
> >>> verbatim text. So why is Twitter more of a problem than someone with
> >>> a steno notebook?
> >>>
> >>
> >> There are several points here which should be considered more
> >> carefully. True, _taking notes_ by electronic means is no different than
> >> using a pen and paper - but twittering is a form of _publication_. That
> >> does not mean all tweets are bad. But _any_ type of publication is
> >> essentially different from a steno notebook - at least until the owner of
> >> the notebook typesets their notes and publishes them. :-)
> >> Second, although I would agree that someone practiced in shorthand
> >> might be able to take fuller, more accurate notes than the _average_
> >> computer user, shorthand is not the _average_ use of pen and paper,
> >> either. Anyone with good software, customised to their needs, and skilled
> >> in its use, could leave even shorthand experts in the dust. There are
> >> apps which will expand brief codes into words and phrases, for example.
> >> Then, of course, anyone using a laptop or netbook might have speech
> >> recognition software - or audio capture software - installed.
> >> There is _no_ way to be sure anyone with electronic equipment is not
> >> recording the entire lecture. It is just too easy to set things up to run
> >> in hidden mode, and to be triggered by a seemingly innocuous keystroke.
> >> Does that mean electronic note-taking should be banned? I can't say -
> >> that is up to the individual lecturer. But the possibility should at
> >> least be mentioned and considered.
> >> This does raise an interesting point, however. The _creator_ of any
> >> work automatically acquires copyright rights once it is established in
> >> fixed form. Does this mean that if someone recorded a lecture without
> >> permission, their placing it in fixed form would confer copyright rights
> >> on the lecturer? Or on the "creator" of the pirated copy? How would the
> >> law view this? (My gut says the lecturer would retain the copyright
> >> rights - but I am not a lawyer.)
> >>
> >>
> >>> I really have not made up my mind on Twitter. Because of my work I do
> >>> see some very valuable aspects to it. I also see problems - and a lot
> >>> of just plain wastes of time.
> >>>
> >>
> >> This is an excellent assessment of Twitter. It is a tool. A skillful
> >> craftsman can accomplish much of value with the same tool another might
> >> wreak harm with - and which most users would just waste their time
> >> fiddling around with.
> >> _That_ is why _all_ aspects need to be considered and discussed, to
> >> work out which uses might have an impact, what that impact might be, and
> >> how best to adapt.
> >> Ray Beere Johnson II
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
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