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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-02 > 0951100773


From: raymond l montgomery <>
Subject: Re: Juliane Fitz Maurice, wife of Thomas de Clare
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:39:33 -0700


Douglas
Thank you!
do you have any further data or ancestry for prendergast?
It would be greatly appreicated!
RAY
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:23:04 -0800 Douglas Richardson
<> writes:
>Hi Raymond:
>
>In answer to your question, it appears that Sir Thomas de Clare
>and Juliane Fitz Maurice were married shortly before 18 February
>1275. It is difficult to know when Juliane was born but I would
>estimate around 1261, as noble women were generally around 14
>when their marriages were consummated.
>
>Juliane's father, Sir Maurice Fitz Maurice, married his first
>wife, Maud de Prendergast, shortly after 1258, following the
>death of Maud's second husband, Maurice de Rochford. Maud de
>Prendergast was born about 1242. So the chronology fits fine
>for Maud de Prendergast for to be the mother of Juliane Fitz
>Maurice. I estimate that Maud was about 19 when Juliane was
>born.
>
>In any event, Juliane could not possibly be the child of her
>father's second wife, Emmeline Longespee, as that marriage took
>place long after Juliane's birth. Also, English records prove
>that Emmeline Longespee died without issue.
>
>All for now. Best always, Douglas Richardson
>
>
>In article <>,
> (raymond l montgomery) wrote:
>>Douglas
>>Thanks for this post!
>>How ever the appoximate birth date i have of juliane
>Fitzmaurice is 1249
>>and that would mean that her mother was 8 at the time of her
>birth.
>>How ever i could be taking this entirely wrong! did you mean
>that juliane
>>birth was 1242?
>>Thanks in advance for your input
>>RAY
>>On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:00:26 -0800 Douglas Richardson
>><> writes:
>>>The recent postings regarding Margaret de Clare, wife of
>>>Bartholomew de Badlesmere, have prompted me to post regarding
>>>Margaret's parentage. As indicated by others, Margaret de
>>>Clare's parents were Thomas de Clare, Knt. (died 1287), of
>>>Thomond in Connaught, Bunratty castle, co. Clare, etc.,
>Ireland,
>>>and his wife, Juliane Fitz Maurice, which couple were married
>>>before 18 Feb. 1275.
>>>
>>>Juliane Fitz Maurice has long been regarded to be a daughter of
>>>Maurice Fitz Maurice, Knt., 4th baron of Offaly in Ireland,
>>>Justiciar of Ireland, by his 2nd wife, Emmeline Longespee.
>>>Juliane was the most certainly a daughter of Maurice Fitz
>>>Maurice, Knt., but not by his wife, Emmeline Longespee.
>>>English records (including her ipm) prove conclusively that
>>>Emmeline Longespee died without issue. For information
>>>regarding Emmeline and the history of her English lands, see
>VCH
>>>Berkshire, 4 (1924): 158-159 and VCH Wiltshire, 9 (1910): 176.
>>>
>>>As for Juliane Fitz Maurice's correct maternity, it appears she
>>>was the daughter of her father's first wife, Maud de
>>>Prendergast, born about 1242, widow of David Fitz Maurice (died
>>>1249) and Maurice de Rochford (died 1258), and daughter and
>>>coheiress of Gerald de Prendergast (died 1251), of Beauvoir (or
>>>Carrigaline) and Ballacha in Orrery, co. Cork, Ireland
>>>(References: Orpen, 1 (1911): 390-391; 3 (1920): 118, 198, 209-
>>>210, 4 (1920):128-129 (chart which incorrectly shows Juliane
>>>Fitz Maurice as daughter of Emmeline Longespee); T.W. Moody, et
>>>al., eds., A New History of Ireland, 9 (1984): 167 (chart)].
>>>
>>>Interestingly, Orpen shows that Maud (de Prendergast) Fitz
>>>Maurice's paternal grandmother was Maud, daughter of Robert de
>>>Quincy (died 1172-3), constable of Ireland, by a daughter of
>>>Richard de Clare ("Strongbow"), Earl of Pembroke. So, it
>would
>>>appear that Maud de Prendegast has some rather illustrious
>>>ancestry in her background, descending from the English Quincy
>>>and Clare families.
>>>
>>>For further particulars on Thomas de Clare and his wife,
>Juliane
>>>Fitz Maurice and their numerous American descendants, please
>see
>>>the forthcoming new book, Magna Carta Ancestry, by Dr. David
>>>Faris and myself, which book should be available for purchase
>>>through NEHGS in Boston sometime later this summer or early
>>>fall.
>>>
>>>All for now. Best always, Douglas Richardson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's
>Discussion
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
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