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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2001-01 > 0979247159


From: "p.sutton" <>
Subject: RE: Mainwaring
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:05:59 -0000


Perhaps its a question of following the land.

Carincham was held from the Crown by the de Swetenham family by the service
of 1 knight's fee from at least the beginning of the reign of Edward I.

After the death of a Richard de Swetenham in 10 Henry VI this fee was
granted to Randle Mainwaring junior.

Now Ormerod says that John Macclesfield after the death of his wife Margaret
Savage married secondly Elen (who was probably daughter of Matthew de
Swetenham)and that John Macclesfield died issueless before 12HVI.

In other parts Ormerod says that Randle Mainwaring married Margaret Savage
(dau. of Sir John Savage ( however this John Savage was never apparently
knighted!))the widow of John Macclesfield.

William Beamont in his book "The Ancient Town of Frodsham in Cheshire"
Published in Warrington by Percival Pearse in 1881 says " 3.John Savage of
Clifton, esquire. From 1432 to 1445 he was bailiff of the King’s forest at
Macclesfield. He married Eleanor daughter of Sir William Brereton and died
29th June 1463. As well as a son he had two daughters 1st Margery wife of
Edmund Legh of Baguley and secondly Thomas Leycester of Tabley, and 2nd
Margaret wife of John Macclesfield secondly Randle Mainwaring of Carincham
and thirdly Randle Mainwaring of Peover."

No sources quoted for any of this contradictory information. However, is it
possible that Randle married John Macclesfield's widow but that this was
Elen de Swetenham rather than Margaret Savage? How did the Mainwarings
really obtain their interests in Carincham?


Peter Sutton

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert E. Bowman [mailto:]
> Sent: 11 January 2001 17:52
> To:
> Subject: Re: Mainwaring
>
>
> Further re: Henry Sutliff's comment on Mainwaring/Savage marriage---We
> would all, I am sure, be interested in knowing whether any proof of this
> marriage has surfaced
>
> Robert Bowman
>
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:
> >To answer part of your question: Randle Mainwaring (1359-1456) of Over
> Peover, Cheshire and Margery Venables (d. 1459) of Kinderton, daughter of
> Hugh Venables and Margery Cotton, were parents of Randle Mainwaring of
> Carchinam (d. 1474) who married Margaret Savage of Clifton and Rocksavage.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Henry Sutliff
>
>
> William Curran <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > According to the Magna Carta Sureties V 5 Randle Mainwaring
> parents might
> be
> > Randle le Mainwaring and Margaret Savage. This would have been
> the second
> > marrage for Margaret Savage. The book states this marrage lacks proof.
> Can
> > anyone assist me in clarifing this situation?
> > I have also seen files where Randles parents are given as another Randle
> > Mainwaring and Margery Venables. Thanks for any help.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> <
>
>

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