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From:
Subject: Re: A New Bohun Daughter Discovered
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:04:12 EST


Friday, 11 January, 2001


Hello Douglas,

Certainly sounds convincing. Now the only question (!?) is probably, which Humphrey [de Bohun]? More on that in a moment.

Concerning the property at Bisley, I found @Britannica.com the following:

'Unsurprisingly, William Bohun, who married
Edmund Mortimer's widow in 1335, was more
substantially favoured with Mortimer lands, not
only receiving in wardship the manors of
Cleobury Mortimer and Earnwood (Shropshire),
the reversion of the manor of Arley (Stafford-
shire), and the manor of BISLEY (Gloucestershire),
apparently free of all rents and services....'

My presumption, if you will, is that the original complete manor of Bisley was originally held by the de Breuse or de Braose family: from whence, a portion (a quarter, as per your post_ came through Eleanor de Braose to de Bohun, and the other into the Mortimer family. The 'manor of Bisley' acquired by William de Bohun, noted above, would then be the remainder (or part of the remainder) held by Roger de Mortimer in 1330.

I suppose one question must be raised as to the phrase in your post,

"Theobald de Verdun vouched the Earl of Hereford,
and said that one Humphrey his father...."

I was originally inclined to take this to mean one person, Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford: on re-reading the text from your post, I must ask is this necessarily so? Theobald de Verdun, Lord Verdun is noted (CP) as being born before 28 June 1248, and marrying before 6 Nov 1276 to his wife Margery. Given the birth of their son Theobald (later 2nd Lord Verdun) on 8 Sept 1278, it is logical to assume Margery's age in 1276 to be at least twelve, and possibly more: a birth range then of, say, 1248 to 1264. Given the birth date of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Essex & Hereford, in 1249 (he who died 31 Dec 1298), it would be logical to place Margery as the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun (d. 27 Oct 1265) by Eleanor de Braose, and sister of the above Earl Humphrey.

The problem (potentially) is, Humphrey (d. 1265) was never Earl of Essex and Hereford, or anything else - he predeceased his father Humphrey (d. 24 Sep 1275). For these facts to be the case, then, "Humphrey his father" cannot also have been "the Earl of Hereford".

What's your read on this issue?

Best regards,


John *



* John P. Ravilious

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