GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2002-01 > 1010884497


From: "Paul Mackenzie" <>
Subject: Re: A New Bohun Daughter Discovered
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:14:57 +1000
References: <00e101c19b61$a4b2d180$e23186d9@oemcomputer>




>Cris Nash wrote:
>> But I do
>> have the sense that the history of the Bohuns' possession of Bisley
>> may be as you say, John, but perhaps still a bit more complex, to
>> become clearer when we've sorted the Humphreys. We may end up
>> thoroughly Haggerd but Bohun companions for sure.
>
>
>From the evidence posted by Douglas Richardson, Theobald de Verdun held a
>quarter of the hundred of Bisley in right of his wife Margery, and Peter
>Corbet held half of the hundred in right of his wife Joan. According to
>Complete Peerage vol.3, p.417, this Joan was the daughter of Ralph de
>Mortimer by Gladys Ddu. So, together with the evidence about the Mortimers
>later holding a "manor of Bisley", it looks as though there was a division
>of this land between the Mortimers and the Bohuns at some point.
>
>I don't see in what's been posted any direct evidence of the Braoses
holding
>land at Bisley.
>
>Cris Nash previously conjectured that Eleanor, second wife of John de
Verdun
>(Theobald's father), might have been a daughter of Humphrey de Bohun
>(d.1265). The Complete Peerage (vol.12, part 2, p.248) had suggested
Eleanor
>might have been a Bohun, but the only evidence cited is the existence of a
>seal, "said to be hers", bearing the Bohun and Verdun arms (citing Staffs
>Historical Collections 1913, p.298). Now that we have clearer evidence that
>John's son Theobald married a Bohun, maybe it's likelier that this seal
>belonged to Margery.
>
>Unless I've missed a flaw in the evidence, it does seem pretty clear that
>Margery was the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun (d.1265). Complete Peerage
>gives this Humphrey two wives. The second, Joan de Quency, was a coheir and
>died without issue. But there may be a difficulty of consanguinity in
making
>Margery the daughter of the first wife, Eleanor de Braose. That would mean
>that Margery's son, Theobald de Verdun, married his second cousin, because
>his wife, Maud de Mortimer, was a granddaughter of Maud de Braose,
Eleanor's
>sister. Could Humphrey de Bohun have had a third, unrecorded wife? Or could
>Margery even have been illegitimate?
>
>Chris Phillips
>


Looking through my notes I found the following Inq. post. mort. in 1295 on
Gilbert de Clare, Earl, of (Gloucester and Hertford)

"Worchester. Inq. Wednesday after St. Hilary, 24 Edw. 1.
Bisseley. Two parts of the manor (extent given) held jointly with Joan his
wife of the king in chief and enfeoffment, service unknown, the third part
is held by Margery late the wife of John de Breuse in dower of the
inheritance of the said heirs of the said Gilbert. Gilbert his son, aged 5
at the feast of St. Mark last is his nxt heir."

Cal. Inq. post. mortem. Vol 3:p 234.

Regards

Paul Mackenzie


This thread: