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From: Rosie Bevan <>
Subject: Re: Vitré ancestry (was CP - ES correction needed?)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:52:27 +1200
References: <55712d2e.0406181949.6f5094e0@posting.google.com><9b6588c14c.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>


Hi Tim

EYC 6 p. 21 may give the best indication of Eleanor's parentage.

"In Nov. 1177 Andrew de Vitre gave to William son of Fulk Paynel, with his
sister in free marriage, that moiety of his land in Normandy that was
jointly divided by Fulk Paynel and himself, which he had chosen in Andrew's
manors of Ryes, Trungy, and Ducy [all in Calvados], with a yearly rent of 20
li. from his manor of Colling [Suffolk]; among the witnesses being William
Paynel, [archdeacon of Avranches], Fulk Paynel, and Fulk Paynel the
younger". [Footnote : Cal. Docs. France, no. 1458.]

Robert Vitre III was succeeded by Andrew by 1177 - hence the arrangement of
the marriage of his sister, Eleanor. As William Paynel's and Gilbert
Tilliere's widow, she married William, earl of Salisbury after 1190.

Cheers

Rosie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Powys-Lybbe" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 2:36 AM
Subject: Vitré ancestry (was CP - ES correction needed?)


> In message of 19 Jun, (John Ravilious) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > 1.1 Emma de Dinan[1]
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Death: 18 Dec 1208[4]
> >
> > Spouse: Robert III, seigneur de Vitre[1]
> > Death: ca 1184[4]
> > Father: Robert II de Vitre (-ca1161)
> > Mother: Emma de la Guerche
> >
> > Children: Eleanor
> > Andrew
> > Alan (-1197)
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > 1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
> > The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and
> > the United Kingdom.
> > 2. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Eleanor de Vitre," August 15, 2002, paper copy:
> > library of John P. Ravilious, citations from Rosie Bevan :
> > , citation from Victoria County History of
> > Northants., vol. 3, p. 181 [which cites Red Book of Exchequer,
> > Rolls series, 331-2; Great Roll of the Pipe (Pipe Roll Soc.), xi,
> > 119; xii, 54; xxi, p.53].
> > 3. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
> > Woodbridge, 2002.
> > 4. Mike Talbot, "Vitri," June 24, 1998,
> > additional commentary by Todd A. Farmerie ().
>
> I am interested to find clearer evidence that Eleanor de Vitré was the
> daughter of Robert (III) de Vitré.
>
> CP does not identify this Robert de Vitré, father of Eleanor.
>
> Mike Talbot wrote in his note of 1998 that he could not find his
> sources.
>
> Keats-Rohan indeed has a line of Vitriacos in DD p. 771:
>
> André de Vitré m. Agnes de Mortain and were parents of
> |
> Robert (II) de Vitré, d. c. 1155, m. Emma de La Guerche and were
> parents of
> |
> Robert (III) de Vitré who d. in 1173
>
> Note that the death date, 1173, of this Robert (III) differs from that
> given above of 1184.
>
> Early Yorkshire Charters are mentioned both by CP and DD. I don't have
> Vol VI to check on CP's reference but the Vol IV reference in DD gives
> no more than the name Roberto de Vitreio as a witness to a charter by
> Conan IV, duke of Brittany. (All offers of my missing volumes
> 1,2,3,6,7,8 and 10 of EYC gratefully received.)
>
> So has anyone got any evidence to identify the Robert de Vitré who was
> the father of Eleanor who m. William, earl of Salisbury?
>
> --
> Tim Powys-Lybbe
> For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
>
>

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