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From: Rosie Bevan <>
Subject: Re: Vitré ancestry (was CP - ES correction needed?)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:19:50 +1200
References: <55712d2e.0406181949.6f5094e0@posting.google.com><9b6588c14c.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <00a401c456a3$e9a55100$cd00a8c0@rosie>


Recte : for Colling please read Cooling.

Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosie Bevan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Vitré ancestry (was CP - ES correction needed?)


> Hi Tim
>
> EYC 6 p. 21 may give the best indication of Eleanor's parentage.
>
> "In Nov. 1177 Andrew de Vitre gave to William son of Fulk Paynel, with his
> sister in free marriage, that moiety of his land in Normandy that was
> jointly divided by Fulk Paynel and himself, which he had chosen in
Andrew's
> manors of Ryes, Trungy, and Ducy [all in Calvados], with a yearly rent of
20
> li. from his manor of Colling [Suffolk]; among the witnesses being William
> Paynel, [archdeacon of Avranches], Fulk Paynel, and Fulk Paynel the
> younger". [Footnote : Cal. Docs. France, no. 1458.]
>
> Robert Vitre III was succeeded by Andrew by 1177 - hence the arrangement
of
> the marriage of his sister, Eleanor. As William Paynel's and Gilbert
> Tilliere's widow, she married William, earl of Salisbury after 1190.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Powys-Lybbe" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 2:36 AM
> Subject: Vitré ancestry (was CP - ES correction needed?)
>
>
> > In message of 19 Jun, (John Ravilious) wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > 1.1 Emma de Dinan[1]
> > > ----------------------------------------
> > > Death: 18 Dec 1208[4]
> > >
> > > Spouse: Robert III, seigneur de Vitre[1]
> > > Death: ca 1184[4]
> > > Father: Robert II de Vitre (-ca1161)
> > > Mother: Emma de la Guerche
> > >
> > > Children: Eleanor
> > > Andrew
> > > Alan (-1197)
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > >
> > > 1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
> > > The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and
> > > the United Kingdom.
> > > 2. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Eleanor de Vitre," August 15, 2002, paper copy:
> > > library of John P. Ravilious, citations from Rosie Bevan :
> > > , citation from Victoria County History of
> > > Northants., vol. 3, p. 181 [which cites Red Book of Exchequer,
> > > Rolls series, 331-2; Great Roll of the Pipe (Pipe Roll Soc.), xi,
> > > 119; xii, 54; xxi, p.53].
> > > 3. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
> > > Woodbridge, 2002.
> > > 4. Mike Talbot, "Vitri," June 24, 1998,
> > > additional commentary by Todd A. Farmerie ().
> >
> > I am interested to find clearer evidence that Eleanor de Vitré was the
> > daughter of Robert (III) de Vitré.
> >
> > CP does not identify this Robert de Vitré, father of Eleanor.
> >
> > Mike Talbot wrote in his note of 1998 that he could not find his
> > sources.
> >
> > Keats-Rohan indeed has a line of Vitriacos in DD p. 771:
> >
> > André de Vitré m. Agnes de Mortain and were parents of
> > |
> > Robert (II) de Vitré, d. c. 1155, m. Emma de La Guerche and were
> > parents of
> > |
> > Robert (III) de Vitré who d. in 1173
> >
> > Note that the death date, 1173, of this Robert (III) differs from that
> > given above of 1184.
> >
> > Early Yorkshire Charters are mentioned both by CP and DD. I don't have
> > Vol VI to check on CP's reference but the Vol IV reference in DD gives
> > no more than the name Roberto de Vitreio as a witness to a charter by
> > Conan IV, duke of Brittany. (All offers of my missing volumes
> > 1,2,3,6,7,8 and 10 of EYC gratefully received.)
> >
> > So has anyone got any evidence to identify the Robert de Vitré who was
> > the father of Eleanor who m. William, earl of Salisbury?
> >
> > --
> > Tim Powys-Lybbe
> > For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
> >
> >
>
>

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