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From: "CE Wood" <>
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Thomas de London, lord of Kidwelly?
Date: 28 Jan 2005 09:39:29 -0800
References: <1106714919.913416.66280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1106835166.510521.231190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <1106851080.842777.24530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1106897136.171345.149050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Hi Douglas,

Thank you for such a clear and concise explanation: your specialty.

CE Wood

Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Carolyn ~
>
> Thank you for your good post.
>
> In answer to your question, when I mentioned the evidence in the
Curia
> Regis Rolls which proved Eve's identity and parentage, I was speaking
> of Eve, daughter of Oliver de Tracy, NOT his wife, Eve. As I stated
in
> my original post, Eve de Tracy the daughter married Warin de
> Bassingbourne. The evidence to prove this marriage is found in Curia
> Regis Rolls. So, no I haven't changed my position on this marriage.
>
> Regarding the senior Eve, wife of Oliver de Tracy and Thomas de
London,
> it has commonly been thought that she was daughter and co-heiress of
> Matthew de Torrington. This was thought probable, as Eve's son,
Henry
> de Tracy, is known to have had a one-fifth interest in the Torrington
> family estates. However, in recent time, I've determined that Henry
> de Tracy bought his share of the Torrington estates from one of the
> Torrington heirs. This would necessarily exclude Henry's mother Eve
> from being oneof the Torrington heiresses.
>
> My research indicates that Eve, widow of Oliver de Tracy and Thomas
de
> London, was instead a probable daughter of Fulk Fitz Warin, of
> Whittington, Shropshire, by his wife, Hawise de Dinan. Eve's
> maritagium appears to have consisted of land in Westbury, Wiltshire,
> which property she held under the Fitz Warin family. The name Eve
runs
> in the Fitz Warin family. Also, we know that Eve de Tracy had a
> daughter Hawise de London, presumably named in honor of her mother,
> Hawise de Dinan. Chronology, naming patterns, and land ownership are
> all agreeable.
>
> If anyone has particulars which would shed further light on the Fitz
> Warin-Tracy-London connection, I'd appreciate hearing from them here
on
> the newsgroup. Needless to say, this is a most interesting group of
> families. I imagine most posters here on the newsgroup descend from
> these people.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> Website: www.royalancestry.net
>
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> I presume you have changed your opinion as to the parentage of Eve,
> widow of Oliver Tracy, wife of Thomas de Londres, and mother to
Hawise
> de Londres.
>
> In an earlier post of 21 Nov 2000, regarding Eve de Tracy, daughter
of
> the first marriage to Oliver Tracy, you stated: "Eve de Tracy,
daughter
> of Oliver de Tracy, baron of Barnstaple, Devon, by his wife, Eve,
> probably one of the daughters and co-heiresses of Matthew de
> Torrington. Eve's identity and parentage are proved by suits
published
> in the Curia Regis Rolls."
>
> In that post, she IS a Torrington, whereas you here state she was NOT
a
> Torrington, but the daughter of Fulk FitzWarin and Hawise de Dinan.
> Which is it?
>
> Thanks for all your good research,
>
> CE Wood

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