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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: More Western vs. Dinaric I1b Differentiations
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:02:38 -0600


Some time ago I reported a Western Europe variety of I1b with DYS 388 = 15 and DYS 391 = 10 cleanly separating from the Eastern Europe DYs 388 = 13 variety (DYS 391 = 11 or 10).

This Western variety of I1b was discovered by a lady from Finland, and I have been looking into it from time to time because I think it very important for understanding the settlement of NW Europe. The discoverer of this Western I1b did check some examples in Ysearch and found them to be SNP tested positive for I1b. She also noted that the two varieties also differ at 385a,b and 389i,ii in their modal forms.

Most of the Sorenson Western I1b varieties seem to have origins along the Baltic Sea and North Sea, Denmark, and Scotland, Ireland, England. None had origins in Eastern Europe.

I can report some more markers for which Western I1b clearly differentiates from Eastern I1b

At DYS 437 Western I1b is modal "14" while Eastern I1b is modal "15"

At DYS 459a,b Western I1b is modal "8,9" while Eastern I1b is modal "8,10"

At DYS 448 Western I1b is modal 18 while Eastern I1b is modal 20

At DYS 449 Western I1b is modal 29 while Eastern 13/11 variety of I1b is bimodal at 32 and 30, and Eastern 13/10 is indeterminate and dependent on database.

Furthermore, the Western I1b at 437, 448, and 449 has its haplotypes significantly more concentrated on their modal values than the Eastern I1b, suggesting that Western I1b is rather young.

A couple clues suggest that Eastern 13/10 variety of I1b was the one which spun off the Western 15/10 variety.


The only fly in the ointment is that my search criteria for I1b at Sorenson is picking up some strays from other haplogroups. I use 455 = 11, 393 = 13, 426 = 11, 438 = 10 and YCAIIa,b = 21, 21 as my filter for I1b. The total count of these three types of I1b in Sorenson was 106 haplotypes.

With the demise of Trace Genetics SNP tests for the haplogroup "I" subclades, it is especially valuable if FTDNA get their comprehensive haplogroup "I" SNP testing program going a.s.a.p.

Ken


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