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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1133130505


From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3b sub-cluster - Iberian/North African origin
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:28:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20051127211909.1060.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com>


Ellen,
it would appear the Ashkenazi are well seeded in this cluster as the one step mismatch at the fast 385b marker, from the Iberian modal is from Belarus. The 2 step is from the Ukraine and the 3 step is from Austria-Hungary.

There is very little on the Sephardi E3b. Perhaps when Bennett releases his Y-DNA database of Spanish exiles, things will become clearer.

Gary
Mexico DNA Project Admin.


ellen Levy <> wrote:
Gary & Robert:

Yes, I noted the possible Ashkenazi matches based on
surnames in Robert's posting as well.

According to Behar's data, E-M81 is very rare in
Ashkenazi Jews - about 1% or even less. And there
appears to be no distinctive haplotype, though the
samples are extremely small to make this
determination.

According to Semino's sample, E-M81 is absent from
Ashkenazi Jews. Interestingly, it is present in about
5% of Sephardim, appearing in about the same frequency
in Spain and Sicily. This led me to conclude that the
most likely explanation of Sephardic E-M81 origins is
due to admixture with Spanish and North Africa
populations.

Ellen Coffman

--- Gary Felix wrote:

> Robert,
> as you know many in this E3b Iberian cluster are in
> the Mexico DNA project. One thing to consider is
> that your near modal values for the Iberian cluster
> (which will likely turn out to be M81 pos.) are
> found in Hammers eastern european Ashkenazi FTDNA
> database.
> Several eastern european Ashkenazi in the FTDNA
> database are I, 2 and 3 steps from your E3b Iberian
> modal. In one case where we have a match and a one
> step mismatch to the FTDNA Ashkenazi database we
> know at least one step is the fast mutator 385b.
>
> The Ashkenazi and Sephardi are separated by about
> 1000 years. It is believed the Sephardi settled NW
> africa before settling Spain. M81 is also found
> among Jews according to this study by Cruciani
> http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/hape3b.pdf
> E3b (M81) could be found in 5.3 percent of Turkish
> Sephardi. Note that this was the only Sephardi
> sample in the study.
>
> It would appear then that some percentage of this
> E3b Iberian cluster could be representative of the
> Sephardi.
>
> Gary
> Mexico DNA Project Admin.
>
>
> Robert Tarín wrote:List:
>
>
>
> I just completed a study of E3b that I think will be
> of interest to many. My
> study has revealed a separate sub-cluster of mostly
> Iberian haplotypes with
> a North African origin. This sub-cluster is very
> much distinct from the
> majority European E3b and I have also determined a
> modal haplotype for this
> group from the data I used. I have put together my
> findings in a PDF format
> document but do not yet have a website to post it
> on. Until I do, if you are
> interested in it I can email copies. Hopefully I
> won’t get overwhelmed with
> requests until I find a host.
>
>
>
> Robert Tarín
>
>
>
>
>
>
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