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From: "Robert Livingston" <>
Subject: Re: Dal Riata Modal Haplogroup
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:04:37 -0800


Hi John,
I was pleased to see your "crudely plotted" Scots dna cluster distribution map. I didn't think it was so crude actually! I hope you would agree that is in sync with my even less-refined tables that I sent to you several months ago, showing world distribution of exact matches of this cluster derived from FTNDA's "Recent Ethnic Origins" data. I used only the first 12 markers of FTDNA's data and essentially came to the same "basic" conclusions - the overwhelming concentration of this cluster is found in the British Isles and Iceland - Scotland (24%), the Shetland Islands (21%), Iceland (6%), Ireland (5%), England (4%), and lastly Wales (3%). The remainder of this 12-marker haplogroup is found in two other regions of the world: Firstly, the countries bordering the North Sea and Baltic Sea - Belgium (9%), Belarus (5%), Norway (4%), Sweden (3%), Germany 2%, and Poland (1%); Secondly, the western portion of a corridor that extends from the Ukraine to Portugal, but limited i!
n this instance to Portugal (6%), Northern Spain (5%), and Southern France ( 3%). I restrict the geographical extent of this last area based upon data gathered from Y-HRD, which is more regionally specific. You can review this table and others described below at:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rlivingston1488/Dal_Riata_dna_matches.htm.

You will also find a table there that shows the world distribution of the same Scots Cluster, but with one mutation at DYS389ii from 30 to 29. I chose this particular mutation because the utilities at Y-HRD showed this haplotype to have many more matches than the unadulterated Scots Cluster - 49 compared to just 7. You will find that this single mutation greatly alters the distribution of the haplogroup. The concentration dramatically shifts from the British Isles and Iceland to the above-mentioned corridor that stretches from the Ukraine to Portugal. Most heavily concentrated in Switzerland (17%), it reaches eastward through Austria (0.5%) to the Czech Republic (11%), Hungary (3%), Croatia (7%), and crawls into the Ukraine (1%). Reaching to the south and west, it occurs in France (5%), Italy (2%), and Spain (4%). This so-called "corridor" was a series of valleys, plateaus and mountain passes that ran from east to west, enabling substantial movement of people and g!
oods from one region to another. Branches from this corridor could take you north to the Baltic Sea, and south to the Mediterranean.
The next highest occurrence is in the region bordering the Baltic Sea with a high concentration in Sweden (9%), and the Netherlands (7%), followed by the other Baltic Sea/North Sea Countries (combined = 8%). Low on the totem pole are Scotland and Shetland, each having 6%, followed by Iceland (4%), and then Wales, England and Ireland, each having 3%.
You mentioned in your post that, "earlier work suggested that those in England (with a Scots Cluster Haplotype) had more diversity (i.e. diverged earlier from the MRCA). This suggests that the cluster originated or passed through England on its way to Scotland." Have you taken any similar look at Continental matches with this Scots Cluster that would help to suggest a possible pathway to Scotland? Does the distribution of the one-step mismatch at DYS389ii (from 30 to 29 or visa versa) shown in my tables tell us anything about pathways of migration?

Concerning the term "Dal Riata Modal", I have dangerously used that based upon the assumption that the Modal was centered in the region once occupied by the Kings of Dal Riata (Southwestern Scotland). And this was supported by the inclusion of the MacGregor chieftains in the Modal. But I see how your insistence upon using the term "R1b Scots Cluster" is justified. Most of the research I have done on the history of the surnames most heavily associated with this cluster, heavily suggests that many of them are descended from Crinan, the hereditary abbot of Dunkeld, and the progenitor of the Kings of Scotland beginning with Duncan I and ending with Alexander III. This flies in the face of the assumption that Crinan was of the "Kindred of Columba", and therefore a descendant of the O'Neill kings of Ireland. The "Scots Cluster" does not come close to resembling the "O'Neill" haplogroup modal.

Thanks for all of the work you are doing John!

Rob

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