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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1146356410


From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Age of clusters
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:20:10 +1200
In-Reply-To: <BKEPIIDHHKEPCMDIEBKBOEGGDAAA.andrew.en.inge@skynet.be>


Dear Andrew

You asked how old the core group of R1bSTR47Scots looks like. There was
subsequent discussion between you and Ken as well on his R1b-Sc2 which
is defined by DYS458=20 instead of 18 and DYS464=15-15-16-17 instead of
15-15-17-17.

Okay for the record I went to the phase 3 analysis I did last September
and located "sc2" it lies between Campbell_unk_2FN59 and
Campbell_unk_2FN59 and can be seen at

http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/37strallhapr1bfour.pdf

Magnify the diagram and search for 2FN59. There were 17 entries in the
"sc2" group as I defined it.

It is the obvious "core" cluster branch in the R1bSTR47Scots group and
consists of only Campbell, McCutcheon and Morrison Surnames. I did not
delete duplicate entries for this analysis.

The DYS464=15-15-16-17 is consistent for all, but I had some variability
DYS458 even though the modal was 20

Other differences from the overall Scots cluster modal.
DYS385b= 15 not 14 (Ken has this)
DYS456 = 15 not 16 (Ken has this but has 15 for his R1b-Sc)
DYS570 = 16 not 17 (Not listed by Ken)
CDYa,b = 38,39 not 37,38 (Not listed by Ken)

Regards variability (ASD) estimates are

Group ASD %of R1b
Sc2 Core 0.096 22
R1bSTR47Scots 0.274 63
R1b 0.432

So it would appear this core cluster is a lot younger than R1b and
perhaps only a third the age of the R1bSTR47Scots group. Of course this
estimate may be a little on the low side, because of duplicate entries
from only a few surnames.

Now for some comments.

The Scots cluster has got distinct substructure within it. This was
discussed nearly a year ago now. The ancestors of the "oldest" branches
tend to be located with a wider geographical spread (Scotland/England)
while the "core" as shown above is younger and its highest frequency is
geographically centred on the Western side of Scottish highlands.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

John McEwan



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