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From: "Ian & Mary Logan" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] re neanderthal mtDNA
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:05:26 +0100
References: <44EB2001.8020604@charter.net>


Hello John

Just to respond to your questions.

The Neanderthal sequences are compared to the CRS
- and the fact that this can be done so easily shows
just how closely related the Neanderthals are to Homo Sapiens.

I have suggested a good way to consider things is to put:-

Mitochondrial Eve at 200,000 years ago,
the origin of the Neanderthals at 400,000 years ago,
and the separation of the Chimp at 4,000,000 years ago.

i.e. the similarity of 'Neanderthals to homo sapiens' can be
taken as being 10 times better than the 'Chimp to homo sapiens'.

However, it is a pity we have not got coding-area mutations
for Neanderthals as these mutations would be of much more use.

To your other point:
Predicting haplogroups just from HVR data works pretty well
for the main Haplogroups - but HVR is not very good when it
comes to suggesting subgroups. And, the main trouble comes
because the hypervariable areas are simply too hypervariable !

Ian

........
John wrote:
Does anyone know definitively to what standard they compare the
Neanderthal mtDNA? IOW are they comparing it to CaRS or are they
comparing it to chimps, gorillas, etc? I presume it must be to some
human mtDNA--else the number of data points would be too high; plus
chimps are presumably no closer to ancestral mtDNA of neanderthals than
are humans and indeed are expected to be much further. But I don't know
for sure. I know if I were reporting Neanderthal mtDNA I would create a
fictitious human who was an intersection of all human DNA with
Neanderthal DNA so if 16447 e.g. were mostly A (including whatever
they're using now) but occasionally it is T and say it's usually T in
all the mtDNA Neanderthal we've found, the standard would be 16447
instead of 16447A.
JAL
Along the same lines, I've asked this question before. But it seems
that no one is willing to predict haplogroups from HVR data. I would
think that they may not be able to give a prediction, but they ought to
be able to say something along the lines of E.G. "Anyone with an
unaltered CaRS might be H1...Hx, or U1...Uy; but they are not Ax
nor......" (not meant to be realistic example just a reasonable format.)
.................

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