Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-01 > 1263788721

From: "Andrew Mceachern" <>
Subject: [DNA] Clarification re markers for Somerled please
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:25:21 -0500


I have been reviewing various posts and websites for the marker sets for Somerled.

There appears to be some "confusion" as to value of the deduced marker DYS458.

The ISOGG site has DYS458 listed as 16.
The 25 marker ysearch ID entered for Somerled shows DYS458=16
The 37 marker ysearch ID entered for Somerled shows DYS458=15
Various postings to this forum have stated DYS458 =16 such as

but the Clan Donald Genealogy Website (updated November 14, 2009) states that they believe Somerleds DYS458=15 as can be seen here at the bottom of the page


"The same tests described above can be applied to this data. This analysis confirms that the main R1a Clan Donald line is indeed the line of Somerled's grandson "Donald the eponymous". The marker DYS458 appears, based on this limited data, to distinguish MacDonald from MacAllister. One R1a participant from Glencoe (whose line branches off from a brother of Lord John) also shares 15 at DYS458. We now beleive that we have sufficient data to show that the ancestral state was 15 at DYS458 and that the actual mutation occured with the birth of Lord John himself, his father, or grandfather. While this is not absolute proof, we consider it reliable at the 90% or better level. DYS458 is a fairly fast marker, and we do see what are likely back and parallel mutations. The number we see is quite accurately in accord with the known mutation rate. The pattern of 11 at DYS442 and 12 at DYS438 is indicative of the name Alexander, though we do not know at all if this is a universal diagnost!


and here at the top of the page


"This subgroup contains the Clan Chiefs, indicated by a blue background: Iain Godfrey Macdonald of Sleat, Ranald MacDonell of Glengarry, and Ranald Alexander MacDonald of Clanranald. Allan Douglas MacDonald of Vallay, Chieftain of the Vallay line, has a green background. Persons in this group are possible descendants of Somerled, and are almost certainly of Norse descent. The Group Modals line represents the most likely haplotype of John, first Lord of the Isles (died 1386), and by implication of Somerled himself, with the exception of DYS458. Because MacAlisters and one R1a1 person known to be from Glencoe (whose R1a chiefly line began with a brother of Lord John) are 15 at DYS458 we believe that Somerled was 15 at DYS458 and that the mutation to 16 occured with the birth of Lord John himself, since all his sons bear 16"


May I please have public clarification for the deduced value of the DYS458 marker for Somerled.



This thread: