Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-11 > 1321132098

From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Correct TMRCA analysis (Europe)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:08:18 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <392E2540C74C4370A1587A5B7C5BF094@Silva>

Bottom line
STR estimates show V13 "was formed" about 2600 years ago.
DNA evidence shows it had already expanded into Spain 7K years ago. Given needed time from expansion to reach Spain the difference is about 3 fold.
Mexico DNA Project Admin.


--- On Sat, 11/12/11, grandcross <> wrote:

From: grandcross <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Correct TMRCA analysis (How much V13 in Spain)
Date: Saturday, November 12, 2011, 11:33 AM

I accept the correction. As we both agree M78 is usually composed largely of
V13 on a European level; in fact, I believe that over 80% of European E is
V13. That aside, the percentage of V13 in Iberia is by any definition much
greater than "a few cases".

I have looked into this question a few times and found that the assumption
you make (most M78 is V13) is probably wrong. Haplotypes found in papers
about Spain appear to show a surprisingly high level of V22 and other E-M35
types which are NOT E-V13. So Spain is probably the only part of Europe
where E-V13 is not the most common type of E-M35 or even of E-M78, although
it probably is the most common in at least parts of Spain.

On the other hand I tend to agree with your major point which is that V13 is
not exactly super rare in Spain or in France. Apart from the E-M35 project's
own data, the classic academic dataset is the Cruciani team's which can be
collated from various articles. See our collation:

It seems to agree with your impression that V13 is highest in Asturias
within Spain, and probably it is around 5.5% there, compared to about 4.5%
for V22, which also comes under M78.

For France, I also think V13 is above 5% in at least some regions. See for

Best Regards

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